Jeremy Hall: Persecuted Minority

Posted: September 27, 2007 in Celebrating Diversity, Military, Nut Jobs, Utter Inshanity!, War

 I dunno, like, Ghandi maybe. 

Now that Hall has gotten himself painted as this poor, persecuted minority, even going so far as to say that he fears being the victim of a “hate crime” while he sleeps, he’s managed to create an environment where ANYTHING that happens to him can be interpreted as discrimination or persecution.
 
If he’s told to clean the latrine, it’s not because he’s a snuffy, low man on the totem pole and it’s his turn…it’s because he’s a dirty, rotten ATHEIST! Ptooie.
 
If he doesn’t get promoted, it’s not because he violated the chain of command, exercised poor judgement, or is just plain a bird…it’s because he’s an ATHEIST!

If he experiences dirty looks or verbal abuse from his peers, it’s not because they resent the spotlilght he’s turned on their unit, or the way he’s turned himself into an Army of One…it’s because he’s an ATHEIST!
 
Maybe he can hang out with Scott Thomas and they can commiserate together about the trials of being a free-thinker in the intellectually stifling and repressive mire that is the military.
 
And since there is no draft, maybe they can figure out just what exactly it was they were expecting when they voluntarily joined the US Army?  During a time of war, no less?

Oh, and here’s a juicy little nugget.  A quote from Mikey Weinstein, Spec. Hall’s defense attorney:

“We’re fighting the Christian Taliban. That’s who I tell people we are fighting,” Weinstein said.

The Christian Taliban.  Meaty.

P.S. – Oh, and in case you missed it, I guess it was the unit’s chaplain which helped Spec. Hall set up his first meetings of the Free Thinkers. The c-h-a-p-l-a-i-n.

Advertisements
Comments
  1. Wow, you really seemed threatened by atheists who assert their rights.

    And what bizarre kind of comment is that last one about the chaplain? The chaplain’s office was the correct office to go through to arrange this meeting. So what’s your problem?

  2. Dolly Dagger says:

    I know Spc Jeremy Hall… do YOU?

    Do you really think you know what is going on in his brain? What his motivations are? Maybe you should be screening all the presidential candidates for

    He is an honorable man. He’s in the Army because he believes the Constitution of the United States is worth upholding.

    I was in the Air Force for nearly 10 years. Had I the courage of Jeremy Hall, maybe he wouldn’t be going through this today!

  3. Steve B says:

    Brian – You are absolutely right. The chaplain WAS the right resource to use. And Mr. Hall was supported by the units Christian chaplain in getting his meetings. So why now is he suing the SecDef for promoting an exclusivist Christian autocracy? Clearly the institution supported him, even if one misguided individual didn’t. So I don’t understand the basis for that element of the lawsuit.

    Dolly – No, I can’t read minds, but I can make inferences based on the data. I don’t know Jeremy, but, you are judged by the company you keep. Ol’ Mikey Weinstein looks to me to be quite a piece of work, and if that’s who Hall has defending his position, well, from that I develop a few assumptions about Spec. Hall as well.

    Like I said, Hall had a lot of other avenues to get his issues addressed. The sensationalist approach he’s taken wasn’t anywhere near the top of the list.

    Let me ask this: In you ten years in the Air Force, were you a victim of institutional discrimination because of your beliefs?

    Folks, their are Wiccans and Muslims and Christians and Jehovah’s Witness and Mormons and a veritable Baskin Robbins of beliefs in the military. I honestly, based on my experinces, don’t see how this one incident should be used as an indictment of the entire military.

  4. Steve B says:

    BTW, I’m not threatened by atheists who assert their rights. I can be irritated by how they chose to do it.

  5. Well, you could read the actual filing and find out why Gates is a defendant:
    http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/complain.pdf

    4. Defendant Robert Gates is Secretary of the United States Department of Defense and is responsible for the actions of subordinates.

    14. On information and belief, plaintiffs allege that the acts of defendant Welborn, and the failure of defendant Gates to prevent such violations, is evidence of a pattern and practice of constitutionally impermissible promotions of religious beliefs within the Department of Defense (D.O.D.) and the United States military.

    16. Plaintiffs allege that the defendant Gates has a duty to exercise his authority to prohibit his subordinate, defendant Welborn, and similarly situated subordinates, from engaging in acts that infringe plaintiffs’ constitutional rights.

    In short, it’s Gates responsibility to insure that his subordinates act within the law; the lawsuit also alleges that such actions against atheists is actually exacerbated by the military’s unconstitutional promotion of religion and specifically Christianity.

  6. Steve B says:

    Show me where in the Constitution it prohibits the military from promoting religion? That is a weak and spurious argument.

    Maj Welborn was clearly out of bounds in his actions, but holding Sec. Gates accountable for the actions of a company commander in Iraq is ludicrous. They are trying to make this another Abu Ghraib.

    In the Marines we have something called “Request Mast”, wherein someone who feels they are being treated unfairly can jump to the next higher level of the chain of command to present their grievances. I’m sure the Army has similar procedures. I don’t see anywhere where Spec. Hall took this step. Doesn’t mean he didn’t, but it wasn’t mentioned in anything I read.

    If the charges are true, then Maj Welborn was in violation of at least two articles of the UCMJ:
    http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/ucmj/blart-117.htm
    and
    http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/ucmj/blart-127.htm

    These laws are on the books. As long as the SecDef ensures that they are enforced, he is “ensuring that his subordinates act within the law.” By all accounts, the military is investigating to see if the charges are true.

    Failing to prevent a crime is not the same as commiting one. If it were, we’d have a lot of cops on trial.

  7. The first amendment prohibits the military from promoting religion. And for whatever reason, Hall has decided to file a lawsuit to address his grievance. If you don’t like it, that’s actually your problem.

  8. Dolly Dagger says:

    myspace.com/freddywelborn

  9. IN LOVE WITH A SOLDIER says:

    I ACTUALLY KNOW JEREMY MYSELF, MY HUSBAND IS IN HIS UNIT & I CANT SAY HOW CLOSE THEY ARE IN SUBORDINATION BUT IT’S PRETTY DAMN CLOSE & LET ME TELL YOU JEREMY IS A HUGE FREAK! HE IS USING THIS ATHEIST CRAP AS A SCAPE GOAT BECAUSE NO ONE LIKED HIM BEFORE THEY KNEW ABOUT IT. HE IS A F*G & LOOKING FOR A QUICK WAY OUT OF THE MILITARY & OUT OF IRAQ SO HE CAN ACT ON HIS SEXUALITY. THAT DID NOT COME FROM MY HUSBAND IT CAME STRAIT FROM ME, BECAUSE ANY MALE SOLDIER THAT I HAVE TO WAIT IN LINE BEHIND AT THE NAIL SALON WHO IS GETTING WAXED & MANICURES & PEDICURES IS A FREAKING F*G*T. I MEAN C’MON HIS DATE TO THE BALL WAS ANOTHER MAN, ONE WHO WAS NOT EVEN IN THE MILITARY JUST A OUTSIDE FRIEND HE WANTED TO BRING SO I MEAN SERIOUSLY HE IS GAY! I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES! HE IS A VERY CREEPY DISTURB BOY WHOM I DID NOT EVEN KNOW WAS ATHEIST WHEN I CAME UP WITH MY OPINION OF HIM. NO ONE IN THE UNIT HAS EVER LIKED HIM & HE DIDNT EVEN TELL ANYONE HE WAS ATHEIST UNTIL RECENTLY SO WHAT IS HIS EXCUSE NOW? IF MY HUSBAND CAN DEAL WITH HIS RIDICULE ABOUT GOD ON A 24/7 BASIS THEN HE CAN DEAL WITH IT TOO! DON’T SERVE YOURSELF MORE THEN YOU CAN EAT IS THE WAY I SEE IT! MY HUSBAND CAN’T EVEN PRAY & ASK FOR GOD’S GUIDENCE WHOM HE VERY MUCH NEEDS IN IRAQ BECAUSE OF THIS LIL CREEP! EVERYTIME THEY TRY TO PRAY BEFORE A MISSION HE STANDS OUTSIDE THE CIRCLE YELLING FOR THEM TO STOP WASTING THEIR BREATH & SAYING HE HOPES THEY BLOW UP SO THEY CAN SEE THERE IS NO HIGHER POWER. SO HOW IS HE ANY BETTER THAN THEY ARE? I BET HE NEVER MENTIONED THE FACT THAT HE INSTIGATED THE WHOLE THING TO START WITH, DID HE? I ALSO BET HE NEVER ADMITTED TO ANY OF THE CRAP HE DOES ON A DAILY BASIS TO PURPOSELY GET OTHER SOLDIERS IN TROUBLE, DID HE? I ALSO BET THAT HE NEVER MENTIONED HOW LAST YEAR IN IRAQ ON HALLOWEEN HE DRESSED UP AS A TALIBAN & STOOD UP ON TOP OF THE TRAILERS YELLING THAT SOLDIERS DENY THEIR RELIGION OR DIE FOR THE SAKE OF ALAH AS PART OF A HUGE JOKE, DID HE? LIKE THATS NOT ASKING TO BE KILLED! LOL! ALL HE GOT WAS FREAKING 40 OF DAYS EXTRA DUTY, BUT I BET HE WILL SAY IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS A BIG BAD ATHEIST, RIGHT? WHY SHOULD HE BE TREATED SPECIAL? WHAT BECAUSE HE IS SPECIAL ED? SERIOUSLY THIS KID IS LAZY AS HELL, DUMB AS FU**, EMOTIONALLY DISTURB, AGAIN LAZY AS HELL, & NOW THEY CAN’T EVEN ASK HIM TO CLEAN UP AFTER HIMSELF BECAUSE IT’S NOW CONSIDERED SLANDER. SO HIS FELLOW BRETHREN ARE HAVING TO CATCH HIS SLACK (AS ALWAYS) SO NOW TELL ME IF IT WERE ANY OTHER JOB WOULD YOU NOT CHECK HIM AGAINST A WALL OR AT LEAST THREATEN TOO? I KNOW SOME PEOPLE I WORK WITH I WANNA BEAT THEIR A** & THEY ARE CHRISTIAN JUST LIKE ME. SO RELIGION HAS NO BARING ON THIS RIGHT NOW IT’S JUST SOME IDIOT LOOKING FOR A FREE RIDE ON THE ARMY’S DIME! SO DON’T TELL ME THAT BULL **** LINE ABOUT HE HONORS OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN BELIEFS & THE ARMY VALUES REPEATEDLY MENTIONS GOD AS WELL AS THE PLEDGE TO OUR FLAG DOES. WHEN HE RAISED HIS HAND & SWORE HIMSELF IN, HE SCREWED HIMSELF BECAUSE HE PROMISED TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY & OUR FREEDOM & NOW HE IS TRYING TO BRING A LAW SUIT AGAINST BASICALLY HIS SELF BECAUSE HE IS A PART OF THE ARMY IN WHICH HE IS SUEING. NOW HE IS HAVING TO BE BABY SAT ALL THE TIME LIKE A 2 YEAR OLD BECAUSE HE IS SOOOOOO SCARED! HOW THE HELL HAS HE MADE IT THIS LONG IN IRAQ WITHOUT BEING SCARED BUT HE IS SCARED TO DEATH (LITERALLY) OF A FEW CHRISTIANS. WOW! IT’S GREAT THAT HE IS INTIMIDATED THAT GREATLY BY GOD BUT GEEZ HE IS THE WRONG ONE TO HAVE DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY IF HE IS THAT MUCH OF A CHILD! I SAY GROW THE HELL UP & BE A MAN, DO WHAT THE F*** YOU SIGNED UP TO DO, KEEP YOUR NOSE WEAR IT BELONGS & MAKE NEW FRIENDS! WHAT DO YOU SAY STEVE? LOL! ~LAUGHING MY A** OFF AT THIS DISTURBED FOOL!

  10. Steve B says:

    Thanks for the feedback! It certainly sounds about like I pictured. Only someone with a serious issue to grind, or some kind of weird mental processes sue the freakin’ SecDef…WHILE STILL IN UNIFORM.

    Dude sounds seriously mental.

  11. Bruce Gorton says:

    Steve B

    Or like he has the courage of his convictions.

    Oh, and you are taking someone who hasn’t figured out how to use the caps lock key as being reliable feedback?

    You religious types have been doing this to atheists for years, and now that an atheist has actually stood up for himself, you are pissing yourselves because it exposes you for the “Poor Me” hypocrites you have always been.

  12. Steve B says:

    a) Not pissing myself by a long shot.

    b) This isn’t about the rights of one Jeremy Hall, it’s about pushing an agenda. The tone and content of the suit push the bounds of credibility. If it was just about Hall, he wouldn’t have named the SecDef in the suit.

    This isn’t about equality, it’s about turning the tables, isn’t it? Hall doesn’t just want the freedom to practice his atheist beliefs (a freedom he already had), he wants to remove any reference to religion in the military.

    That’s why I don’t feel one bit sorry for HIS “poor me” story.

  13. reviewsforyou says:

    Yeah, I’m going to take the word of an idiot that doesn’t even know how to use the Caps Lock key.

    I have a simple question that will, hopefully, allow you to see the fallacy of your entire argument:

    How would you feel if Satanists were the majority and all the religious icons were to Satan?

    The fact that you react so strongly to someone that just wants to follow NO religion is testament to your hypocrisy.

  14. Steve B says:

    Go back and read the post. My biggest beef is not that this guy is an atheist. That’s his right. My beef is with how he went about seeking redress.

    I’ll give you up front that this Welborn guy sounds like a real tool. That doesn’t make what Hall is doing right.

  15. Jeremy says:

    This is Jeremy. And I think it is quite humorous that someone that claims to know me has ranted about me on here. 40 days extra duty? Really? You husband must be a truly reliable source. I have never had any type of judicial action against me. Explain my Good Conduct Medal missy! Oh yeah, I can spell. I also fully enjoyed the part where I am a “F*g*t”. Nice spelling and censorship may I add. You are truly creative. Bravo, uneducated wife of anonymous Soldier! You said so many interesting things about me! How about the one where I brought a “guy” to the MP Ball? Really? I did?! Wow. Your amazingly misinformed. Keep up the great journalism and insight. I like people who use there sacred right of the CapsLock key. Viva la UPPER-CASE!

  16. Steve B says:

    Well, it’s good to see that you’re back in the States, as your IP pings in Colorado.

    Here’s the deal. Sadly, I only have what I can read in the news, and what I’ve read on ol’ Mickey Weinstein’s site. I’d be interested in hearing what steps he/you took to seek redress, and why he/you chose to include the Secretary of Defense in the lawsuit, not just Welborn. Feel free to email me at partisanpundit @ yahoo.com. I’m genuinely interested in his/your side of the story, and would love to post of follow-up with the “untold story.”

  17. Jeremy says:

    No thank you.

  18. Jeremy says:

    And another word to the mature Army wife… I think I may know who you are. Mrs. Ruiz? Just a guess. But one thing I think is freakin’ ironic. You rant about me being such a trouble maker… And IF you ARE Mrs. Ruiz… Did’nt your husband get busted down to Specialist E-4 not too long ago? If your not Mrs. Ruiz, I am mistaken. But from what you wrote and from educated guesses… Mrs. Ruiz is my best conclusion as to who you really are. Am I wrong? Am I right? Only you can tell me. You seem verbose. Fill me, and everyone else in please. Don’t be cowardly. It would be a shame for the despicable likes of me to be open about who I am on here. And you not match it? Let’s see what you got.

  19. Steve B says:

    Jeremy,

    Not sure she’ll be back, whoever she was, and this post is buried pretty deep.

    Couple of questions: Did you try a CongrInt? Did you talk to the JAG/Army Law folks? Did you “request mast” as we say in the Naval service, to speak to your Bn commander? Did you talk to the Chaplain, who seemed to be so helpful in setting up your club, to see if maybe he could get Welborn to get a life?

    If true, what Welborn did was patently wrong, and he deserves to be pounded for “undo command influence” or a variety of other violations of the UCMJ.

    But…since Mikey and his crew haven’t posted the actual text of the lawsuit anywhere that I can find, and nothing I’ve read says what steps you took within the system to solve the problem. You can’t blame “the system” if you didn’t USE the system.

    And I can’t find anywhere the identity of who it was that threatened to frag you. That’s “communicating a threat”, which is ALSO punishable under the UCMJ. Have you filed charges against this individual as well?

  20. Steve B says:

    P.S. Here’s a follow-up post which tries to give you a little more of the benefit of the doubt.

    https://bitsofbrain.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/upon-reflection/

    But like I said, without more information, I’m just guessing.

  21. Jeremy says:

    I found this link… In less than one minute using google. Wanna know where it was? The MRFF website. Wow… That would be the LAST place to look huh?

    http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/complain.pdf

  22. Steve B says:

    I’ve posted a follow-up in which I try to be reasonable and rational while presenting my case for why I think you’re going about things the wrong way. Technically, this should just be about MAJ Welborn, not about removing every hint of religous imagery or support from the military.

    https://bitsofbrain.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/spc-jeremy-hall-atheist-with-a-mission/

  23. Jonathan says:

    RE: “Show me where in the Constitution it prohibits the military from promoting religion? That is a weak and spurious argument.”

    United States Constitution: Amendment One

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    The US Military is a government entity which makes them subject to the laws of the land (The Constitution).

    If the military promotes any religion, it must promote ALL religions (or lack of them.) Otherwise, the bias exists.

    If Jeremy had permission from the Chaplain to hold such a meeting as he did (which would be appropriate given the circumstances) it would not be proper for any officer to interfere with the exercise of his belief system. Simply being Atheist does not negate an individual’s right to have beliefs – it only means they do not believe in God. Apparently some think that this is a threat to their own beliefs or way of life. If so, then theirs is a weak faith or belief system.

    I applaud Jeremy for taking the steps he did. Perhaps if he had simply gone through the chain-of-command his complaint would have languished and died. Sometimes one must step out of line to be heard, and if this Pseudo-Christian group was keeping things quiet, then all the more necessary it was to do so.

    It’s about time real, free Americans started fighting back against religious oppression from bigots who proclaim themselves to be “Americans,” but anyone else the same rights simply because they do not adhere to a popular belief.

    The strength of America is in its differences, not in its homogeneity.

  24. O.C. says:

    Jeremy is a disgrace to America, to his parents and to Christians everywhere. He is using this new found gay freedom to try and get out of the army. Sounds to me like the real men in the unit knew he was gay and that’s why they tagged him. Christians, real Christians, know that being gay is an abomination to God. He will pay for turning against his creator for the rest of his life and afterlife.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s